There is so much going on in this post (and the comments). I could probably write all day on it but I'll pick a few salient bits.
First, on being a dickwad: yeah, you probably hurt him pretty badly. A solid dose of fat-shame will last a lifetime. I remember each and every time someone I cared for -- socially or sexually -- has insulted my body; they're always very hard words to forget. I'm not trying to condemn you, we all hurt people sometimes. But tread very carefully in future conversations like that. A lot of people are walking-wounded on their body image, it's a minefield.
Second, it sounds to me -- and here I am speculating a fair bit -- like the sociological talk you're engaging in here (food justice, medical issues) are distractions, diversions. I disagree with Estrellada's claim that "projected shit..." is the core issue. Or perhaps it's just vacuous: projected shit (our own feelings) are what most attraction is about. But it's not projected rationalizations, it's projected fantasy, fancy, memory, chemistry, romance, lust, a dozen irrational things-in-our-heads. I don't think we react to fatness directly in terms of social good (health care, food system, self-control). I think we use those terms as rationalizations for our immediate, personal, often surprising reactions. It's true that many of those reactions are pattered, and socially trained, but that's independent of "having a reason". Lots of social conditioning is 100% reason-free. Still, it molds who we are, sometimes more and sometimes less than we expect. You were surprised by your feelings. Surprise merits inspection. Reflect on what you feel, not why. Why is terribly elusive (and not always flattering, and easy to bullshit about). Reflect on which things (behaviors, bodies, sights, smells, sounds, personal styles) you do, and do not, find attractive, and under what circumstances. Self-knowledge is cool.
Third, while most of your replies here are from women[1], your concern has to do with a man. I know you hate anything that smells at all like gender-essentialism, but even just speaking socially: men interact with fatness ... differently than women. Not to say we have it harder or easier; just different. This is worth paying attention to if you had not yet. For example, men are less likely to have had their self-image built around bodily attractiveness in the first place, and often have self-worth more easily embedded in other things (hobbies, social groups, status of various forms). This also means that men's response to fatness is often to become alienated from our bodily selves altogether, to try to embrace other ways we have of being attractive. Alienation isn't great either; it's different. There's much more to say here (eg. how many men do you know who self-describe as "curvy"?) but suffice to say, I really do think gender and gender roles are worth noting if you're turning the relationship between "fat" and "sexy" over in your head.
[1] Re: women's relationship, there's a fascinating sequence of articles over at Greta Christina's blog, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this. Or was interesting to me.
no subject
First, on being a dickwad: yeah, you probably hurt him pretty badly. A solid dose of fat-shame will last a lifetime. I remember each and every time someone I cared for -- socially or sexually -- has insulted my body; they're always very hard words to forget. I'm not trying to condemn you, we all hurt people sometimes. But tread very carefully in future conversations like that. A lot of people are walking-wounded on their body image, it's a minefield.
Second, it sounds to me -- and here I am speculating a fair bit -- like the sociological talk you're engaging in here (food justice, medical issues) are distractions, diversions. I disagree with Estrellada's claim that "projected shit..." is the core issue. Or perhaps it's just vacuous: projected shit (our own feelings) are what most attraction is about. But it's not projected rationalizations, it's projected fantasy, fancy, memory, chemistry, romance, lust, a dozen irrational things-in-our-heads. I don't think we react to fatness directly in terms of social good (health care, food system, self-control). I think we use those terms as rationalizations for our immediate, personal, often surprising reactions. It's true that many of those reactions are pattered, and socially trained, but that's independent of "having a reason". Lots of social conditioning is 100% reason-free. Still, it molds who we are, sometimes more and sometimes less than we expect. You were surprised by your feelings. Surprise merits inspection. Reflect on what you feel, not why. Why is terribly elusive (and not always flattering, and easy to bullshit about). Reflect on which things (behaviors, bodies, sights, smells, sounds, personal styles) you do, and do not, find attractive, and under what circumstances. Self-knowledge is cool.
Third, while most of your replies here are from women[1], your concern has to do with a man. I know you hate anything that smells at all like gender-essentialism, but even just speaking socially: men interact with fatness ... differently than women. Not to say we have it harder or easier; just different. This is worth paying attention to if you had not yet. For example, men are less likely to have had their self-image built around bodily attractiveness in the first place, and often have self-worth more easily embedded in other things (hobbies, social groups, status of various forms). This also means that men's response to fatness is often to become alienated from our bodily selves altogether, to try to embrace other ways we have of being attractive. Alienation isn't great either; it's different. There's much more to say here (eg. how many men do you know who self-describe as "curvy"?) but suffice to say, I really do think gender and gender roles are worth noting if you're turning the relationship between "fat" and "sexy" over in your head.
[1] Re: women's relationship, there's a fascinating sequence of articles over at Greta Christina's blog, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this. Or was interesting to me.