Wandering Thoughts: Femininity Etc.
Sep. 29th, 2003 05:11 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
greenstormI had a very relaxed day yesterday, full of a kind of peace and self-directed activity with no outside pressures that I haven't felt in awhile.
It gave me some space to think about where I am, what I'm doing, and how I'm doing. There wasn't other stuff rushing me to keep me thinking about now, this here, now, this here...
By many measures I'm in a very good place. I'm busy, but soon we'll be moved into Vancouver and there will be less of this split home business. I'm with some very good people, and it's important to me to be there: that's where the rest of it comes in.
I've discovered some patterns in one of my relationships that are very worrisome, or rather, I was talking to the Juggler and he mentioned something that got me to thinking about it and realising that I really do this stuff. It isn't good stuff, and it worries me that I do it. I guess there's always new poly stuff which comes up and this is just today's allotment.
It's some pretty challenging stuff to overcome, though, related as it is to time, relationships of convenience, weird stuff with women, and old personality stuff all at once.
I'm realising that it might be helpful to me to explore some bi writings as to the difference between the genders. I still hesitate to identify myself as "bi" -- it sounds ludicrous, something trendy like plum-coloured hair was in high school or like bell-bottoms, something that just can't be associated with a real person. I'm still tentative about the line between statements like "this is my personality" and "this is a gender-related personality trait." I'm not sure how that sort of thing fits together, or fits into my world, although I believe that the reality is something of a grey line and so my uncertainty isn't entirely unjustified.
I'm finding, though, that I react very differently to TOW than to the other SOs. She acts very differently than they do, of course; that may be a part of it. Whether she acts that way because of her female-ness or female-upbringing or just because it's her I'm not sure. Am I reacting differently to her female behaviour? To the fact that she's female, regardless of behaviour? Just to a person's behaviour that's so different?
I'm inclined to think that there's a large part of the first two in the mix.
I am both more critical of her and more forgiving where she crosses boundaries: that, I believe, is largely a female thing. There are things that I believe, in an ingrained sort of way, that women should do. Some of these I'm conscious of and I fight them, such as our helplessness in so many situations and our extreme self-criticism. When I see these in another they are difficult for me to deal with, because I'm rejecting them in myself. With someone whom I care for deeply and whom I identify with it's even harder; to some extent it's a part of me doing it but I have no control over the doing of it. If you like, I feel tainted, my efforts not to be this stereotypical woman failed because this is being done.
There are bits of the stereotype that I've bought into as well, things that I think a woman should do. Those are unconscious, so that I can't list them for you here, but sometimes I feel them kicking resentfully when I see her acting outside them. I become what I dislike 'most women' for being, a cultural enforcer.
Neither of those are good things, obviously. The underlying issue seems to be that suddenly there's this strong identification with the other in th erelationship; there's this shared woman-ness that brings me to confuse our individuality. I don't think to say, oh, she's doing this thing, let me talk about it with her in an interesting way. Instead I react at the gut level as if it made a personal difference to my own self-image that she does these things.
And, of course, there's all that gender reactionism in there that's not good. I find now that I'm polarised on gender issues, that I think this is bad for a woman to do and this good instead of thining, as I wish to, that this is good and bad for a person and no better or worse for a woman.
This discovery disturbs me; I've been reading some things lately and find myself forced to agree with an essay that I didn't like much at the time, which stated something about men and maleness being the norm. It is the norm for me, the standard through which I view things, with womanly things laid over the top as extra standards, or lower standards. I react to men in a default manner, and count that manner as the way I react to people; I react to women differently and count the way I react to women as strange.
*sigh*
I'm making something of a muddle of this. I still can't think of it very clearly. Still, the way I react to women is this afterthought, a part of my personality that I thought of as incidental, and that awes me with how deeply conditioning runs for me where I don't see it. Uprooting any of that will be a big challenge.
This isn't to say that I want to ignore gender differences, or that I think they can be abolished, or that I don't think they can be abolished. I'd just like -- oh dear, this sounds annoyingly new-agey -- to have the feeling that people are different-but-equal and can take the bits of whichever gender they want as they want without pressure.
I'm also getting to know enough women now that I'm beginning to feel out the general rule as to how women act, how they feel psychically. I'm beginning to think that they're capable both of a lot more visceral understanding and visible empathy in both situations we've shared in the past of which there are many and in situations unknown to them before. I'm also finding that, like me, there's that element that I call in myself 'storminess': quick reaction, unpredictability, the ability to take a new thing and connect it to ten million little seemingly unrelated incidents and draw surprising conclusions (is that 'intuition'?), sensitivity to mood and atmosphere.
It's interesting, listing this, that those qualities often come up in anyone as a relationship deepens as secret hidden things, but that they seem to be more of a surface thing, less shameful and deeper and more pronounced in the woman I know.
I wonder how the qualities age? The storminess certainly seems to fade somewhat?
But, enough of this for now. I need more experience to be able to say anything more, and I need to keep my eyes open to see how these thoughts connect up with reality.
Take care.
It gave me some space to think about where I am, what I'm doing, and how I'm doing. There wasn't other stuff rushing me to keep me thinking about now, this here, now, this here...
By many measures I'm in a very good place. I'm busy, but soon we'll be moved into Vancouver and there will be less of this split home business. I'm with some very good people, and it's important to me to be there: that's where the rest of it comes in.
I've discovered some patterns in one of my relationships that are very worrisome, or rather, I was talking to the Juggler and he mentioned something that got me to thinking about it and realising that I really do this stuff. It isn't good stuff, and it worries me that I do it. I guess there's always new poly stuff which comes up and this is just today's allotment.
It's some pretty challenging stuff to overcome, though, related as it is to time, relationships of convenience, weird stuff with women, and old personality stuff all at once.
I'm realising that it might be helpful to me to explore some bi writings as to the difference between the genders. I still hesitate to identify myself as "bi" -- it sounds ludicrous, something trendy like plum-coloured hair was in high school or like bell-bottoms, something that just can't be associated with a real person. I'm still tentative about the line between statements like "this is my personality" and "this is a gender-related personality trait." I'm not sure how that sort of thing fits together, or fits into my world, although I believe that the reality is something of a grey line and so my uncertainty isn't entirely unjustified.
I'm finding, though, that I react very differently to TOW than to the other SOs. She acts very differently than they do, of course; that may be a part of it. Whether she acts that way because of her female-ness or female-upbringing or just because it's her I'm not sure. Am I reacting differently to her female behaviour? To the fact that she's female, regardless of behaviour? Just to a person's behaviour that's so different?
I'm inclined to think that there's a large part of the first two in the mix.
I am both more critical of her and more forgiving where she crosses boundaries: that, I believe, is largely a female thing. There are things that I believe, in an ingrained sort of way, that women should do. Some of these I'm conscious of and I fight them, such as our helplessness in so many situations and our extreme self-criticism. When I see these in another they are difficult for me to deal with, because I'm rejecting them in myself. With someone whom I care for deeply and whom I identify with it's even harder; to some extent it's a part of me doing it but I have no control over the doing of it. If you like, I feel tainted, my efforts not to be this stereotypical woman failed because this is being done.
There are bits of the stereotype that I've bought into as well, things that I think a woman should do. Those are unconscious, so that I can't list them for you here, but sometimes I feel them kicking resentfully when I see her acting outside them. I become what I dislike 'most women' for being, a cultural enforcer.
Neither of those are good things, obviously. The underlying issue seems to be that suddenly there's this strong identification with the other in th erelationship; there's this shared woman-ness that brings me to confuse our individuality. I don't think to say, oh, she's doing this thing, let me talk about it with her in an interesting way. Instead I react at the gut level as if it made a personal difference to my own self-image that she does these things.
And, of course, there's all that gender reactionism in there that's not good. I find now that I'm polarised on gender issues, that I think this is bad for a woman to do and this good instead of thining, as I wish to, that this is good and bad for a person and no better or worse for a woman.
This discovery disturbs me; I've been reading some things lately and find myself forced to agree with an essay that I didn't like much at the time, which stated something about men and maleness being the norm. It is the norm for me, the standard through which I view things, with womanly things laid over the top as extra standards, or lower standards. I react to men in a default manner, and count that manner as the way I react to people; I react to women differently and count the way I react to women as strange.
*sigh*
I'm making something of a muddle of this. I still can't think of it very clearly. Still, the way I react to women is this afterthought, a part of my personality that I thought of as incidental, and that awes me with how deeply conditioning runs for me where I don't see it. Uprooting any of that will be a big challenge.
This isn't to say that I want to ignore gender differences, or that I think they can be abolished, or that I don't think they can be abolished. I'd just like -- oh dear, this sounds annoyingly new-agey -- to have the feeling that people are different-but-equal and can take the bits of whichever gender they want as they want without pressure.
I'm also getting to know enough women now that I'm beginning to feel out the general rule as to how women act, how they feel psychically. I'm beginning to think that they're capable both of a lot more visceral understanding and visible empathy in both situations we've shared in the past of which there are many and in situations unknown to them before. I'm also finding that, like me, there's that element that I call in myself 'storminess': quick reaction, unpredictability, the ability to take a new thing and connect it to ten million little seemingly unrelated incidents and draw surprising conclusions (is that 'intuition'?), sensitivity to mood and atmosphere.
It's interesting, listing this, that those qualities often come up in anyone as a relationship deepens as secret hidden things, but that they seem to be more of a surface thing, less shameful and deeper and more pronounced in the woman I know.
I wonder how the qualities age? The storminess certainly seems to fade somewhat?
But, enough of this for now. I need more experience to be able to say anything more, and I need to keep my eyes open to see how these thoughts connect up with reality.
Take care.
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no subject
Date: 2003-09-30 02:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-09-30 04:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-09-30 05:58 am (UTC)You are going to react differently to men than to women. It happens. I also react differently to very short men than I do to very short women. I react differently to huge and burly type guys as I do to normal Chris (different Chris) sized guys.
Prejudice is not necessarily bad. If you are aware of it, you can use it and not let it use you.
no subject
Date: 2003-09-30 05:08 pm (UTC)o How do I react differently to women than men?
o Why do I react differently to women than men?
o Is any given difference of reaction useful/good? Is it obstructionist/bad?
o Do I react more strongly to someone's woman-ness than their personality?
o How easy is it to change some of my behaviour in this arena?
o Why do I consider my reaction to men my default reaction to humanity?
And more specifically:
o Is this causing me to do anything particularly destructive that I should stop in my relationship with TOW? Can I stop it?
o Is this causing me to do anything particularly good in my relationship with TOW? Can I carry these behaviours into my other relationships?
o Do I like interacting with people this way?
o How does this effect true intimacy and clarity in my relationship with TOW, and in my relationship with groups which contain her?
*grin*
So, I need to become aware, and then I need to figure out how to use it and how not to use it. I just tend to talk a lot more than you, I guess. ;)