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Humans and nonhumans
May. 6th, 2023 10:15 pmTwo moments from the last few days that require some observation:
One of the willow volunteers does a ton of physical outdoorsy sportsy stuff in his free time: climbing, snowshoeing, hiking, etc. It's been suggested to me that he handles his emotions by doing a ton of physical stuff (like my mom) though this is the first time I met him. He also has a lot of charisma, and it's funny because his charisma was 100% similar to mine in the way it operated: that sort of warm attentive twinkle, the sense of focus, the type of question, the type of approval offered. I know a couple people who operate like that and it's always odd to be on the other side. He was also trying to make eye contact and I was doing the ultra-autistic zero eye contact. I make eye contact to ramp up intimacy, and he was already doing attentive intimacy so it would have felt super odd to meet his eyes in that situation. This is not someone I'm interested in going there with.
This morning I heard someone shouting so I ambled outside. I have a neighbour two down who has a pair of absolutely magnificent guardian-breed dogs (I don't know what breed specifically, maybe pyrenees, but the size, coat, colouring, and carriage are unmistakable). He's had them for maybe a year, or almost a year, and they're always immaculately groomed and he's constantly walking them and working on either boundary training or invisible fence training with them, they seem incredibly well taken care of. I was therefore surprised when one of the dogs was, in true guardian fashion, standing at the edge of his property looking down the road and the owner was repeatedly yelling at him to come back, sounding upset/angry. The other dog was, also in true guardian fashion, ambling back towards his owner.
I did a lot of research on guardian breeds and a lot of research on training when I got my pups. It was all just words until we spent some time together, at which point it became so ingrained into me that I don't think about it anymore.
Guardian breeds have a job. They know their job, and they have moral certainty that they should do it and do it well. They're smart, determined, problem-solving, and driven. They're also generally very confident, to different levels based somewhat on breed (independent vs partnered-with-humans workers) and somewhat on personality. Trying to make them not-guard when they think there's a problem is setting everyone involved up for trouble and conflict both external and internal. LGDs can often be convinced (by a trusted person) that something is safe and doesn't need to be guarded against, but they can't be convinced to respond without thinking in the same way that so many other dogs can. They're always evaluating the best way to do their job. Thea has come to get me when there was a wolf she couldn't handle. Avallu has slowly learned I'd prefer he get me if there are humans at the gate, instead of feeling like he has to deal with it himself (Tornjaks are one of the more people-oriented LGD breeds).
Plus, dog training isn't separate from life. Every thing I do is feedback for my dogs, and likewise everything they do is feedback for me. Training isn't about forcing them to do something, disciplining them if they don't, or imposing my will on them. It's just figuring out the most effective interspecies communication, and making sure that my behaviour consistently aligns their interests with mine.
So to come back to the neighbour and a bit of foreboding I had: my dogs really like to mark right outside my gate, so when I open my gate to drive the truck in they go out. At first they would run down the road, I'd call them (Avallu is moderately deaf, so I'd sign to him, but he's also more headstrong) they would keep running down the road to clear and mark the area (because disincentivizing things they're guarding against is best done further away, it's safer from their POV), I'd go get them, bring them in, and ignore them because they'd done the bad thing of running too far. This was not working for anyone. I'd read that every recall is a training session, and that dogs won't come to someone who primarily yells at them, but at some point it clicked. Instead of ignoring them when I got them back in, I had a little hug-and-pet party with them. Now as soon as the motor turns off on the truck they run back and find me for hugs, after having done close-by marking as I pull in. I'd changed from a disciplinary mindset to a teamwork mindset and it made a huge quality-of-life difference to everyone.
That's why I feel a little uneasy when I hear my neighbour yelling at his pups for recall. This is the first time I've heard that, but: they're coming up on the big shift that happens around 2, when their guardian instincts kick in and they become more independent. They are never going to be a dog like a herding dog which lives to instantly obey: they will always think it through first. There are two of them and they probably almost outweigh him individually: these aren't dogs that can be physically controlled or disciplined (not that any dog should be physically disciplined, eep). They can also be very dangerous dogs. So I hope he sorts out a good way to communicate with them, and also that they don't, for instance decide to guard his home from other humans. I am wishing him the best of luck, they are glorious dogs.
One of the willow volunteers does a ton of physical outdoorsy sportsy stuff in his free time: climbing, snowshoeing, hiking, etc. It's been suggested to me that he handles his emotions by doing a ton of physical stuff (like my mom) though this is the first time I met him. He also has a lot of charisma, and it's funny because his charisma was 100% similar to mine in the way it operated: that sort of warm attentive twinkle, the sense of focus, the type of question, the type of approval offered. I know a couple people who operate like that and it's always odd to be on the other side. He was also trying to make eye contact and I was doing the ultra-autistic zero eye contact. I make eye contact to ramp up intimacy, and he was already doing attentive intimacy so it would have felt super odd to meet his eyes in that situation. This is not someone I'm interested in going there with.
This morning I heard someone shouting so I ambled outside. I have a neighbour two down who has a pair of absolutely magnificent guardian-breed dogs (I don't know what breed specifically, maybe pyrenees, but the size, coat, colouring, and carriage are unmistakable). He's had them for maybe a year, or almost a year, and they're always immaculately groomed and he's constantly walking them and working on either boundary training or invisible fence training with them, they seem incredibly well taken care of. I was therefore surprised when one of the dogs was, in true guardian fashion, standing at the edge of his property looking down the road and the owner was repeatedly yelling at him to come back, sounding upset/angry. The other dog was, also in true guardian fashion, ambling back towards his owner.
I did a lot of research on guardian breeds and a lot of research on training when I got my pups. It was all just words until we spent some time together, at which point it became so ingrained into me that I don't think about it anymore.
Guardian breeds have a job. They know their job, and they have moral certainty that they should do it and do it well. They're smart, determined, problem-solving, and driven. They're also generally very confident, to different levels based somewhat on breed (independent vs partnered-with-humans workers) and somewhat on personality. Trying to make them not-guard when they think there's a problem is setting everyone involved up for trouble and conflict both external and internal. LGDs can often be convinced (by a trusted person) that something is safe and doesn't need to be guarded against, but they can't be convinced to respond without thinking in the same way that so many other dogs can. They're always evaluating the best way to do their job. Thea has come to get me when there was a wolf she couldn't handle. Avallu has slowly learned I'd prefer he get me if there are humans at the gate, instead of feeling like he has to deal with it himself (Tornjaks are one of the more people-oriented LGD breeds).
Plus, dog training isn't separate from life. Every thing I do is feedback for my dogs, and likewise everything they do is feedback for me. Training isn't about forcing them to do something, disciplining them if they don't, or imposing my will on them. It's just figuring out the most effective interspecies communication, and making sure that my behaviour consistently aligns their interests with mine.
So to come back to the neighbour and a bit of foreboding I had: my dogs really like to mark right outside my gate, so when I open my gate to drive the truck in they go out. At first they would run down the road, I'd call them (Avallu is moderately deaf, so I'd sign to him, but he's also more headstrong) they would keep running down the road to clear and mark the area (because disincentivizing things they're guarding against is best done further away, it's safer from their POV), I'd go get them, bring them in, and ignore them because they'd done the bad thing of running too far. This was not working for anyone. I'd read that every recall is a training session, and that dogs won't come to someone who primarily yells at them, but at some point it clicked. Instead of ignoring them when I got them back in, I had a little hug-and-pet party with them. Now as soon as the motor turns off on the truck they run back and find me for hugs, after having done close-by marking as I pull in. I'd changed from a disciplinary mindset to a teamwork mindset and it made a huge quality-of-life difference to everyone.
That's why I feel a little uneasy when I hear my neighbour yelling at his pups for recall. This is the first time I've heard that, but: they're coming up on the big shift that happens around 2, when their guardian instincts kick in and they become more independent. They are never going to be a dog like a herding dog which lives to instantly obey: they will always think it through first. There are two of them and they probably almost outweigh him individually: these aren't dogs that can be physically controlled or disciplined (not that any dog should be physically disciplined, eep). They can also be very dangerous dogs. So I hope he sorts out a good way to communicate with them, and also that they don't, for instance decide to guard his home from other humans. I am wishing him the best of luck, they are glorious dogs.
