Greenstorm&#39;s Journal

It's not immoral to say that, no. If you're too drained to give your relationships the energy they need, then take a break, and know that it is for everyone's benefit that you do so.

I think the "if it can't wait you're down by one SO" ultimatum shouldn't be dragged out unless they are being really unreasonable about it.

Otherwise, you're not doing anyone a favour by continuing relationship negotiations at a time when you're tired and cranky and not thinking clearly. You'll wind up making promises you can't keep, or getting angry and doing damage you can't quickly fix.

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Thank you. That makes sense. Are you familiar with this feeling? I'm thinking about 'relationships are your art' or some similar comment that you mentioned.

Do you have any tips and tricks, only $9.99 plus shipping and handling, we accept visa and mastercard?

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I am absolutely familiar with it. I'm dating someone right now that we both know who lives with it. But I've been there too.

I especially know the awful terrified frustration when you don't have the time and/or energy to deal with something and you're afraid that by the time you do they'll have given up and gone away.

Tips and tricks? Only one. They don't give up and go away, unless they were going to anyway.

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Tips and tricks? Only one. They don't give up and go away, unless they were going to an

Oooh. Thank you. I need to repeat that one like a mantra sometimes.

greenstorm, Hubby and I just spent *yet another* night embroiled in similar things. I think I know how you feel (exhausted, drained). This one went much better, and resolved a lot, and we both feel good now. I gotta say, I'm ready to drop the angst and have some FUN right about now :-P

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Argh. That's even more frustrating. They never go well when I'm around and people do tend to magically resolve them if I'm out of the picture. :P

It's good that you guys got your stuff together. Let's see if I can keep mine compatible. We're probably going to begin moving into difficult territory for me here with some of the solutions,

I really hate it when my own stuff interferes in someone else's solutions, too.

*whimper*

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Argh. That's even more frustrating. They never go well when I'm around and people do tend to magically resolve them if I'm out of the picture. :P

Not the case, m'dear: the previous night was 4am and I was dealing with a bunch of things that I hadn't had the opportunity to ponder yet. Last night, I had had the opportunity to ponder, a few mood-lightening experiences, and a bit more sleep.

You have, on a number of occasions, been instrumental in clarifying communications between he and I (and me and K for that matter). It's an area in which you're far, far smarter than I am (I have good intentions, but am entirely too clumsy).

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That's the thing, though. I'm not so bad at working with other people through other people's problems.

It's the fact that when I was trying to be part of the solution (instead of just sitting back and keeping my mouth shut) stuff didn't get figured out. When I leave, you guys can figure it out. When I try to be actively involved it doesn't seem to work; if I stay passive and value-neutral and uninvolved it does.

In this case I can consider that your guys managed to simplify a three-person problem into a two-person problem and make it easier to solve, and that perhaps my inclusion as part of the problem was a bad thing and was inhibiting resolution.

I still wish, a little, that I had been part of it. You know?

Having said that, I'm far happier with it solved than not, and curious to know the solutions. I'm hoping, too, that I don't end up obstructing those solutions -- I'm a little worried about my own feeling-left-out complexes, and probably need a good dose of 'where do we actually want this to be/what do we want to do with this longterm/visualise yourself in five years' sort of thing. That can be dealt with in person, I think.

Wow. Really long way of saying 'I feel left out, I need reassurance that I still belong and maybe a little more info.'

At least I'm back in analytical mode rather than actually feeling that stuff. Keeping busy does help one make that switch.

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Just in time for the weekend, from the sounds of it :)

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Actually, I haven't yet worried about that one -- not for years, I don't think. I really do trust the people in my life to make decisions based on data that we sit down and talk about and come to some marginal sort of consensus with, if nothing else.

I have an extremely, extremely low tolerance for being in the middle of a conflict, which is probably why it doesn't come up. I haven't yet learnt the fine art of shelving it and relaxing for a little bit to reset the perspective, or whatever. So I can grudgingly accept the need for a couple of hours sleep, but leaving it unresolved just kills me.

I need to get over that one, right? Because then if I decline to discuss something at a particular time it's pretty much equally stressful to discussing it.

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Yeah, you do need to get over that one... :)

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Easy part down. Now for the how.

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wik.livejournal.com

I just can't think of something complex and angsty to say, so I guess I'll just say that I hate you, and I never want to see you again, with a big pouted lip.

But yeah. G'luck.

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Thanks.

What you meant was that you really need to talk about how I use you for oral sex and song attribution while leading you about by the nose with the lure of not dumping you from the friends list, right? And you'll call me at 3am to discuss this?

Note that my sense of humour is actually intact, it may just not be recogniseable.

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wik.livejournal.com

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Except for the 3AM thing, because some of us have to work. ;)

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Oh, but that's the best time to argue until dawn. It adds that extra edge to your workday.

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http://users.livejournal.com/_locke/

Actually I've been meaning to talk to you. It probably shouldn't wait until the retreat. It's kinda important. Actually really important. Actually I think the world might explode if we don't talk about it *RIGHT NOW*.

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Hmmm. Hasn't exploded yet. Perhaps you meant right *NOW*?

...

...

...*NOW*?

Er. Hmm. I think the World Destruct-O-Machine(TM) is broken.

I'll take this opportunity to proposition you. Let's take half an hour or so at the retreat and not talk about anything important at all!

P'raps during that workshop. Note to self: bring camera.

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Digicam is coming as requested; do feel free to borrow it. I promise that no compromising pictures will end up on the 'web without the subjects' permission ;-) *hee*

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No, it's not immoral or wrong -- you know you best, and nobody can help you get your needs met if you don't voice them (can you tell I've been reading humanist psychologists?).

It might be less turmoil in the long run, though, if you could warn people before it got to the ultimatum level, though.

I'm exhausted too, and up for some relatively-lighthearted fun this weekend.

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*chuckle*

The idea of a warning is great in theory. I guess one just has to preface any contact with anyone with the warning. Or put an external brain sticky note on for them to see.

I need to try and get more explicit than 'I spent three hours talking to the SO and three hours talking to TOW' and get into the actual: I'm exhausted and if you want to bring something up you need to wait sort of warning, I guess.

Relying on other people to extrapolate seems to lead to trouble.

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The idea of a warning is great in theory. I guess one just has to preface any contact with anyone with the warning. Or put an external brain sticky note on for them to see.

No, no, that is not what I meant (and I'm sure you know that, but you write without smileys so it's hard to tell ;-) What I meant was that it's possible to know your own emotional patterns well enough to tell in advance when a continuing situation is going to make you feel the need to issue ultimatums (ultimata, I suppose?). When you recognize that pattern, then you can issue a warning.

I don't believe in disclaimers for any sort of human interaction -- reeks too much of a cop-out, and attempt to absolve one's self of the responsibility for one's feelings and actions.

Then again, we all know where that attitude gets *me*...

Maus,
occasional martyr to some vague cause in her head ;-)

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What I meant was that it's possible to know your own emotional patterns well enough to tell in advance when a continuing situation is going to make you feel the need to issue ultimatums (ultimata, I suppose?). When you recognize that pattern, then you can issue a warning.

Okay, I see what you're getting at. Given an interaction with one person I have no problem doing this. Here's where the problem comes in:

I have a heavy talk with person A. I'm feeling a bit wrung out. I have another talk with person B. I'm feeling pretty damn flattened. Person C, not knowing about either, comes and starts talking to me. If I don't give them a warning at the beginning of the conversation they won't know about the stuff with A and B, and given the way this stuff goes will in all probability begin initiating a heavy talk of some kind.

So although I might be able to recognise that I've hit my limit, I'm in the position where I need to convey that warning to everyone who might bring up relationship stuff, which is pretty much everyone I talk to.

Possible solutions?

1) Don't talk with B until I'm really wrung out, but instead save a bit for when C says, 'no, but we -really- need to talk' for the negotiation surrounding that.

2) Find a cardboard box and write out of order on it. Hide in the box and don't talk to people when I don't have anything left for discussions.

3) Train SOs to, when I say 'I don't have the energy for this', immediately drop the subject and not try to negotiate talking about it a little bit, or when we'll talk about it next, or can I just acknowledge this one point first.

4) Move to an island and ditch A, B, C, D, and E forever.

5) Carry a weapon (see point 3, just with more emphasis).

6) Some combination of 1 and 3.

7) Some combination of 2 and 5.

(consider a smiley added?)

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